Rakhi Pancholi is an Alberta NDP MLA who serves as the Deputy Leader of the Official Opposition. She has a BA from the University of Alberta in Political Science and History and a law degree from the University of Toronto. As a lawyer, she has experience working in the areas of education, labour, and employment through private practice and the public sector. As an MLA, she continues to advocate for Albertans to ensure a brighter future for all. Rakhi lives in South Edmonton with her husband, two school-aged children, and their furry rescue dog. Navya Baradi, our Executive Director, sat down with Rakhi to talk about women in law and government.
NB: Welcome Rakhi! To begin, what inspired you to pursue a career in law?
RP: Law came about not as a deliberate choice because I didn't know that I wanted it, I didn't know any lawyers in my life. I didn't actually really have an understanding of what being a lawyer was like other than what I'd seen in TV and movies. During my undergrad, which started in one direction and ended in another, I ended with a Political Science major and a History minor, and I loved my political science classes. I think what I loved most about it was trying to understand worldviews and forces in the world that shift and change things and how they respond to people. And also advocating for certain positions, right? Like why were some positions more effective at addressing some concerns than others? And I would really get into those healthy debates with classmates and it was really forming my own views and perspectives as that was happening.
So when I completed my undergrad, I actually was not sure I was going to go into law school. In fact, I knew I wanted to do more schooling and I was sort of torn between doing a Master's in Political Science and I had a professor who was very much trying to push me in that direction. He truly believed I should have done that. But I think I thought that I didn't really know what practicing law would be like, but I had the idea very inherently that it was about advocacy.
And I am somebody who likes to read a lot. One of my strengths is written arguments. And so I thought, you know, I feel like this might be something for me. I wrote the LSAT, also still at every step of the way, sort of being like, maybe this is the right thing for me, maybe not. I studied for the LSAT, I didn't just wing it, but what I studied for it. I wrote the exam and I did well and I applied for law school. I got accepted to a few law schools and one of my top choices was the University of Toronto. I wanted to go to Toronto because I did want to move away from Alberta and also Toronto was where my mom's family was and I wanted the experience of living in Toronto. When I got accepted to UofT, that was actually the moment that I was like, okay, I'm going to go to law school. But I really entered law school very naive about what was actually going to take place there, what I was going to learn, what I would come out of in terms of a job or a career.
I just knew that I was intrigued by the idea of, you know, thoughtful, logical approaches to positions. Advocacy was a big part of it. And I thought that it was, you know, a good career too, right? You know that I come from an Indian family where a good career is really important. And I knew my mom was very pleased at the prospect of her daughter going to law school. So all those things came together, but at every step of the way, I was sort of like, is this working for me? Does this seem like it was right? And so that was what, you know, made me take the leap and try law school.
NB: What was the most rewarding part of being a lawyer?
RP: So my most rewarding part of going to law school was going to Cape Town. I actually took a half semester in my third degree of my third year of law school. And I went to South Africa because I had grown pretty passionate about constitutional law. And the idea to actually experience and work through some of the sort of hypotheticals and these ideals that you talk about in class, but actually see how they applied in a totally different country. I learned so much. That experience really changed my life in many ways. I think it really centered me in terms of understanding that, you know, my parents are immigrants, but also understanding this idea of other countries and how they operate and the dynamics that shaped the law and really fascinated by the context of South Africa. I also loved Cape Town, it is a beautiful city. So that experience was probably my best.
But in terms of the part that I liked the best about my law career, which spanned about 13 years before I got into politics – I loved working in the public service. I worked for eight years with Alberta Education and I truly felt like the issues that I was advising on were really directly affecting people. Like the idea of creating public policy and contributing to that and bringing my expertise as a lawyer, but I learned a lot from the people who lived and worked in the education system. So I was learning at the same time as applying the skills that I had, in a way that I felt was actually meant to positively impact people in my community and my province that I loved. I felt very passionate about my work in public service. It was very motivating to go every day and work on something that I felt had a positive impact on people. And education is such a natural space too, because we're talking about children and what they're learning and preparing them for being good citizens and good contributors to their community. And that was something that was important to me. And I felt like it was using my skills for the positive. So I really loved that.
NB: When you talk about your career in law and that passion for constitutional law and working in public service – did you see yourself going into politics right away or how did that decision come about for you?
RP: Yeah, it's funny because, obviously on paper I look like the classic politician, political science, law degree, practice law, go into politics. And I'd always been a watcher of politics. I worked in the provincial government, I certainly watched what was happening. I did volunteer in some campaigns and I worked in a constituency office for an MLA in my undergrad years. But yet, all of that, given all of that, I can still say honestly that I never anticipated that I myself would go into politics. It was something I was interested in watching, but I never thought that I would have a role in it. Really, when you decide to go into politics, what you're really deciding is to put your name forward to try to go into politics, because ultimately, it is the public who decides whether or not you're going to be elected.
But that opportunity came about because somebody asked me to run. I can say I don't think that that was even a possibility or something I was considering until the moment that I was asked. I didn't certainly make the decision lightly. It was a conversation I had with my family and thought about the impact on my career. I talked to people in politics, in law, in various fields to get an understanding. But I am a believer that when opportunities present themselves, you need to seriously consider them. It felt like a moment for me where I was like, you know what? I've always cared about being an advocate. I'm really passionate about my province and public policy. I really want to be a role model for my kids, both in terms of being somebody who thinks about their community and does public service. But also a role model in the sense that I grew up in this province and didn't see a lot of women period, but also particularly did not see women who looked like me in politics and in these roles.
I was certainly eager to change the dynamic of leadership in government and in politics. It felt like this opportunity was there and this was the chance for me to actually, you know, walk the talk and put my name forward.
I do feel like I have a pretty healthy amount of willingness to take on risk or challenge, right? I very much went into it, eyes wide open thinking if it doesn't work out, that's okay, I can go back to practicing law. And by the way, that was a big factor in my decision to run for politics was knowing that I had this good professional career. Having practiced law for 13 years, I felt pretty confident that no matter what, I had skills, I had credibility, I had a reputation, I had clients, I had colleagues who I could go back to, and it would also really help inform what I would do in politics. So they felt very synergized in that sense, but it was really for me about feeling like I wanted to contribute and this possibility and opportunity presented itself, so it was time for me to take it.
NB: I absolutely love hearing the way that you got into politics, because I think it just is so indicative of the way that you are as a politician as well and just so community-centered. When a lot of people think about a career in law or politics, they sometimes blend together. What unique skills do you think you developed from working in law and politics and how do they complement each other?
RP: Yeah, you know, there's a reason probably why historically a lot of lawyers used to historically become politicians. That seemed like a natural path. Because of course the most fundamental part of being an elected official is you are considering, proposing and passing legislation, right? Which are laws. On the other hand, as a lawyer, I've often spent a great deal of time interpreting, applying, and understanding the intent behind legislation and regulations. So, you know, there's natural affinity there. I think of course that if you are a lawyer you have an understanding of how legislation is supposed to work and then here you are, you know, as a politician and you're actually considering and debating and speaking to. You know that being said, it's certainly been a bit of an eye-opening experience for me to realize how little real legislative consideration takes place sometimes in the legislature, much to my disappointment.
But if you think about it and go back to, for me, the core of why I decided to go into law, it was about advocacy. The best way to be a strong advocate is to truly understand all sides of arguments, right? It's not just to take one position and blindly advocate for it. Yes, of course, in law, you've got clients that you're representing, but you're having to come up with the best arguments, and part of that is anticipating and understanding the context and the counter arguments. Politics is a lot like that. There's a lot of saying “this is what we believe and what we wanna do” or “this is what we think is a good policy position.” But I have to understand, well, who would be affected by it? What's the negative? Who will be supportive? Who will not be? What are the arguments against it, right? So I definitely think that skillset is important, which by the way, I'm not always sure that politicians are applying all the time.Right now in politics it can feel like you get very entrenched in your view and you will not consider and accept other positions.
But certainly that familiarity and comfort with legislation and then the idea of being an advocate, I learned those skills from being a lawyer. Being an effective elected official, you're reading a lot, you're doing research. It's a lot of public speaking. Oddly, I was not a litigator, so I didn't actually have a lot of experience doing litigation and even the courtroom side of it. But certainly, you get the skills a little bit about how to effectively communicate and how to be convincing in your arguments. Although I always joke that as much as my legal background and my law career influenced and supported me in being a good politician, equally as important to my success, I think it has been the fact that I was a drama kid in high school. I did a lot of theater. And as a result, I know a little bit about speaking with emotion and how to, you know, be effective in how you position your body and how you do all that kind of stuff. So I sometimes joke that my theater skills have served me better in politics than my legal skills. But that's just, I think that's just a statement about politics right now.
NB: Shifting gears a little bit now, because as you know, at NCWIB, our main target market is really young women that are in university or pursuing post-secondary, wanting to get into their first professional jobs. And so we wanted to ask you, have you encountered any gender-specific challenges in your career and how have you navigated them?
RP: I don't think it's a secret that being an elected official, somebody who's in the public eye, when you're a woman has many different implications than if you're a man. There's absolutely no doubt about it that in my political career, both being a woman and a woman of color is one of the impetuses and one of the reasons that motivated me to get involved in politics, but it has also come with a lot of gendered and sexist interactions and implications.
The most obvious being of course, the hate you see on social media. I get a lot and unfortunately it seems to be the reality that many women are facing that constantly on social media. But I have to say, I experienced that in the legislature for sure. I can feel that being a woman in that space, especially when the governing party is predominantly men and very loud, and I'll say it, angry men. In that space, I often feel very unsafe, to be quite honest. And that is something I never anticipated going into politics.
It's been a really unfortunate reality that I'm trying to find ways to navigate and also to try to improve, because I actively try to recruit more women to get involved in politics. I was first elected in 2019 and in the most recent election in 2023, re-elected 22 out of 38 women in our caucus. I'm very proud of those results because I actively engaged and encouraged and supported a number of our female candidates to run and who were successfully elected. But I wonder sometimes what kind of an environment that I brought them into. Now, those are the most negative parts.
You know, my job is very busy and time intensive. I certainly get people asking me questions about how I manage my family. I'm pretty certain nobody asks my husband the same questions. And there are gendered aspects as in a public figure – you're judged more absolutely by the way you're dressed, by the way you look, by the tone of your voice. Those kinds of things, I live every day. Part of the fact that I live them every day is why I continue in this space. Because, it would be easier to sort of step back and say, this is enough, I don't want to do this anymore. But I truly believe that I have earned the space that I'm in and I am not willing to cede that space and the message I say to a lot of young women in various fields who want to get involved in either leadership in business or in law or in politics. I think it's important for other women to be honest about what they're experiencing. We're also seeing a bit of a backlash against women's advancement in these fields. We see that with what's happening politically in a lot of spaces, the criticism of, you know, policies that try to encourage more diversity and inclusion and equity. We're seeing a strong backlash against that, and I think we need to be honest with each other about that. It's also incumbent upon those of us in the sphere to be mentors, supporters, you know, a place for other young women to vent to, to ask questions. I think that's a really important role that we all play.
We need each other to support each other. We need to find allies as well. It is not, I think, if I try to be philosophical about it, I sometimes think that, you know, when you're asking any dominant group to share power, there's always a bit of a backlash against it and a resistance. And my hope is that it is just that, a resistance temporarily, but as we kind of continue to move forward. But it is going to be something that we're going to have to actively be vigilant about and keep working hard on and keep supporting other women.
NB: There was one time I think it was 2023, that I came to watch the budget speech and at some point you and Janis Irwin asked questions back to back and it was so powerful seeing the two of you fight so strongly. Being in that space was just such a meaningful moment for me and I'm really glad that you're in that space doing that work. My last question for you is, what advice would you give to young women aspiring to work in either law or politics?
RP: I think both of those fields, law and politics, are best navigated by tapping into your own interests and your own skills. It is really easy, particularly in law, to feel as if there's a path you're supposed to follow and that if you don't do this, then you won't get that or you won't achieve this. It's very much a field filled with hierarchy. There's an idea of what is respectable, what is the most attainable, what do you envy the most in certain positions in law?
But law is about advocacy. And I think in order to be a strong advocate, to be good at what you wanna do, you have to feel passionately about what you're doing. Now, not everybody's driven by passion the way that is a big motivator for me. Whether or not I'm gonna continue on with something, for me, depends on how I feel about it. And I also think to that point, I encourage women to try different things and to not fear that because you do something that isn't the thing that ignites your passion, that you somehow made a mistake. In fact, I think it's a learning opportunity. And first of all, any experience you do in law, any kind of work you do, wherever you take a position, whatever kind of volunteer work you do in law, you're going to learn from that.
You're going to learn some skills, either to say, this is going to make me better and this sparked an interest in me and I'm gonna pursue that, or, wow, this really wasn't for me. But this means I've tried it, I've given it an effort, but I'm gonna learn something still, a skill, but I'm gonna move on to something that I'm more interested in.
I can say without a doubt, particularly for law, almost everybody I know who entered into law school is in a different place now than where they started – and sometimes radically different. Let me be clear, I've been out of law school for 20 years now, but I actually feel like the number of lawyers that I know who started at a firm, and the number of those lawyers who are still at the same firm, doing the same work, are almost none. So you don't have to worry that the first step you're gonna take is where you are going to be. You're going to learn something that's going to open a door. Just keep your eyes open for those opportunities and be open to it.
And I think it’s the same as with politics, I often get asked, what's the right path for me to get involved in politics? I always say, there's no path. It's about finding out the things that you care about and are passionate about. I always encourage people to volunteer. To volunteer in a wide array of different things and pursue volunteer opportunities, not just because they look good on a resume, but because you care about it. That’s something I always talk about in my experience, like what I did just before I got involved in politics. So I was already a practicing lawyer for 9 or 10 years at that point, and I volunteered with an animal rescue organization. Why? I just did it because I love dogs. Ironically, that actually equipped me with so many skills when I got into politics. Volunteer management, how to raise money, how to motivate people. There were so many skills, but it was obviously not for my resume.I did it because I enjoyed it. And I do feel like you should feel free to try the things and be passionate about it, because again, you will learn skills, and that may lead you to politics, to find out what issues or what topics you really wanna be involved in.
Then of course, if you are interested in getting involved in politics, volunteer in a political campaign. It is a way to get started. It doesn't matter if it's municipal, federal. Just get involved. See what it's like. There's a reason why law and politics go together – it's advocacy. And you can be an advocate as a volunteer and in many ways that have nothing to do with law and politics, but if you're somebody who's motivated by improving your community around you, the skills you learn as being a lawyer are very similar to the skills you can learn in being in politics.
Don't be afraid to try different things, and don't be afraid to fail, because you will learn something from it.
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